Recently I've been surveying a lot of KDE distros. I tried a lot of live cds and looked at a lot of videos and screenshots. Things have changed a little bit since I last searched for a distro. People have started modifying KDE (KDESC?) a bit more from the defaults but not by much certainly nothing that compares to how much Gnome2/Kde3 were/are customized. In any case I eventually decided I had to settle on something. So I went to my s.o.p for distro selection. Make a list and use each distro long enough to decide if it was something I could use with minimal annoyance. Here are my findings so far.
OpenSuse:
I received a great many suggestions for OpenSuse and Arch Linux (and Chakra). I tried OpenSuse 11.4/Tumbleweed. I had many issues with OpenSuse 11.4 unfortunatly. I thought perhaps switching to Tumbleweed would fix them but no cigar. The one thing that sticks in my mind is that my ability to click would randomly stop (yes that is click on buttons). I could use keyboard shortcuts and buttons etc. would work then. Very odd, especially in light of OpenSuse 11.4 getting so much praise which I'm sure is well deserved. There were a lot of great things that I respect about OpenSuse and I certainly respect anyone's decision to use it. However I moved on.
My next distro was going to be Arch. I have a great many good memories of my time on Arch. Almost every thing I learned about Linux I learned using Arch. However I felt the time to set everything up and take care of all the little kinks might be too much so I decided to try Fedora ahead of Arch.
Fedora is my "alma matter" the first distro I ever installed, and in my opinion currently the best gnome distribution out there and given current my experience, I might even say it has the best KDE spin I've tried so far. It's not so much that it does anything special with KDE, it provides basic vanilla kde (though Fedora 15 has an awesome ksplash!). Perhaps that is the beauty in it, nice and simple (they don't even split the kde packages). So far no problems I was able to get to work with minimal setup time.
My reasons for leaving Kubuntu were initially based on the fact that ubuntu had managed to introduce a bug in natty that led to my laptop overheating. This issue managed to resolve itself soon after my decision to switch and the latest Kubuntu release is actually pretty good. However I decided to take the opportunity to try something new.
So it is that I'm currently sticking with Fedora and so far I am quite pleased. If that changes then I still have Arch, PCLinuxOS and Mageia.
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Obligatory question:
ReplyDeleteWhy not Debian? [K]ubuntu is based on it and it has a KDE very close to unmodified. The `stable` distribution works very well and `unstable` (Debian's "rolling release") is not that unstable.
I've often considered using Fedora, but the lack of official or consolidated community support for non-free stuff -- flash, certain video codec, etc. -- was a no-go for me. I'm wondering how you've gotten around it, or if you just don't use things like flash.
ReplyDeletePardus is a great choice for KDE. The only problem would be waiting for updates (the stable repos are still on 4.5)
ReplyDelete"they don't even split the kde packages"
ReplyDeleteThis is a huge negative for me, this alone means I won't use Fedora + KDE.
I prefer Gentoo, because it's the best distro for development.
ReplyDelete@Benjamin Kay: all what you are looking for is named "autoten" or "fedoraplus".
ReplyDeleteI'm also a Fedora KDE user. The best thing about the Fedora KDE spin is its packaging. It's not about the vanilla packaging; some Fedora patches are heavy (KDE Plasma NetworkManager, for instance: it is a heavily patched version of a secondary repo, to enable networking with NetworkManager 0.9 and GNOME 3). It's simply about the sheer quality of the packaging.
ReplyDeleteRex Dieter KDE repo is among the best. He backports fixes from the stable branch constantly, as minor RPM releases, so you have real updates, almost in real time.
Fedora is quick to package, not so quick to distribute, but if you are impatient you can download the build yourself from Koji (and leave karma there). But the package is well built, and you feel it. I've stumbled upon several packaging issues in Kubuntu absolutely absent in Fedora (the most noticeable one: the absolute lack of Gamin or FAM support in Kubuntu, so, no self-updating folders for you). There was a simple bug with KDE 4.6.3, and Kevin Kofler fixed it and sent the fixed package to the repos in HOURS. I've seen simple bugs in Kubuntu languish for weeks without a maintainer, when the fix is sometimes a simple dpkg-buildpackage against KDE 4.6 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/akonadi-googledata/+bug/727487 ).
So I can understand you. Fedora, in theory, is a GNOME distro. In practice, thanks to Kevin Kofler and Rex Dieter, is a great KDE distro too.
I'm in the same quest too, arch is what I use now, but you just can't trust arch, it's too bleeding edge and so it causes problems from time to time.
ReplyDeleteWhat I would love in a distribution is:
-KISS: I really like when I understand what the system is doing and how. This also means no nonsense, like merging dri from 1 kernel into another (ubuntu stuff), or unneeded patching which usually breaks more than fixes.
-Reliable: Stuff that works today works tomorrow, that is my main concern with arch, as any program might break without advice, and some times stuff breaks just when I need it the most (an example being intel driver bugs caused by rc driver being pulled into the repos)
-Up to date: It should do like opensuse, updating apps frequently in rolling release fashion, and core stuff (kernel, drivers, X, alsa) every four or six months.
-Have good kde packages: Mainly stable and very up to date in point releases, customization would be nice, but not a must have.
That's basically what I need from a distribution, I know it' a lot of requeriments but I don't see it impossible.
Arch gets close in everything but stability (maybe I should also add ease of use)
Opensuse, at least last time I tried it, fits everything except kiss (it seems that current 11.4 is a bit unreliable for the moment, it might get better after some updates).
Fedora is bleeding edge like arch, so it should fall in the same category, while at the same time not being as kiss as I'd like.
Kubuntu fills up to date and good kde packages but fails in KISS (mosty ubuntu core fault) and doesn't do bad in reliability (old kubuntu releases used to fail, but it's getting better)
The best would be to make kubuntu developers builded an arch based distro with help from opensuse developers (who would add the conservatory thinking that is needed for reliability) but I'm just dreaming about that.
Did you try Chakra? Definitely, it's a good choice.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to say the same as Anonymous there, Chakra is shaping up to becoming a great KDE distribution. Based on Arch but with a slower update of critical components like the Kernel, and all focused on KDE with Live-CD and all. Give the Live-CD a try at least!
ReplyDeleteI think Mandriva is worth the try.
ReplyDeletePCLinuxOS would be my choice. Whichever one you end up with good luck.
ReplyDeleteI had a similar problem with mouse clicks not working on openSUSE 11.4. After switching to the packages from the Xorg testing repo and the Kernel Of The Day (KOTD) repo, the problem has gone away -- I don't know which of these fixed it although I suspect the former. Based on the messages I saw in my X error log either my video or synaptics driver was misbehaving, so the updates solved that problem.
ReplyDeleteAh, yes it might have been something like that. But I I wasn't really into fixing that. I have never had a problem like that with beta editions of any distro much less the release edition of a distro on an 8 month cycle. I guess I might try that at a later date.
ReplyDeleteI am going for mageia instead of Mandriva. I really like the passion there.
I have a chakra iso sitting in my downloads folder waiting to be tested :).
@Benjamin Kay
ReplyDeleteThat actually didn't turn out to be much of a problem really. Flash was a quick trip to the flash website and either downloading the rpm to add the adobe repo or downloading the binary itself and installing it. Then just add rpmfusion's repos with a single copy/paste to the terminal. Excluding download times etc. I'd say adding all the "non-free" stuff took less than 4 minutes.
@anonymous I don't see why gentoo would be the best distro for development. You can get & customize the source of any package with any distro. And if it's about ease of doing that I'd say Arch has a 1 up on gentoo. More over, all that time spent compiling everything could have been spent actually developing. I understand some prefer that and that is their prerogative but it's just not my cup of tea :).
I have lately (in a month) gone trough, backward and forward and around multiple distributions. Multiple times Ubuntu (with XFCE, KDE SC and GNOME 3.0 and Unity), OpenSUSE, Fedora, Arch Linux (dropping from the list all other distributions like Debian, Slitaz and many more).
ReplyDeleteAnd so far I suggest three distributions for different people.
1. Arch Linux, main use, who want working system, no hassle after installation and easy to update/roll back. About 70% change a best choice.
2. Fedora, for young people who want to more test Open Source world and check what it has to offer. Easy to set up, and enough possibilities to tweak and brake things.
3. OpenSUSE for those who need some enterprise support and something "stable", something else than just software stable (like what Arch Linux offers as well) by the support side without so much "geek". OpenSUSE is great for those who need more support pages (altough, Arch Linux wiki has no winning competitor) in enterprise style.
And now in next 6-12 months I think there comes anymore two distributions what I would suggest, Arch Linux and Mageia.
In the end, it does not matter so much what distribution to use as they are all "the same". It is question about all other things that what software you can get running and so on.
For some people it is very important that it is Ubuntu because everyone talks how it is "best and easiest". And for some people it needs to be a enterprise supported or bigger company to "assure the quality" and so on....
I would say most problems comes when people acts like lemmings and are ready to jump over the cliff if leader say so. (Or like zombies who just starts following some other zombie what is following something and soon you have huge group of zombies walking as they are chasing a pray, even that there is nothing).
So far using, supporting and even marketing Ubuntu (or variants) is bad for the whole IT world in long run (and that run is coming shorter all the time and effects are causing more problems).
I see the problem with mouse clicks not working on openSUSE 11.4 as well. In that case log out and log in again, and for the rest of the time the problem no longer happens.
ReplyDeleteBuy a Mac and use OS X.
ReplyDeleteYeah I don't use apple products unless I'm forced to.
ReplyDeleteWelcome aboard! I have to admit, I like playing with kdm/ksplash themes but a lot of work was done by Design team - the wp.
ReplyDeleteFor non-free stuff we have RPM Fusion repos (I did not say it, hh) and of course 24/7 support as mostly all the time someone is online on #fedora-kde channel. We do package splits sometimes but based on user needs and clear use-cases. Otherwise we try to stick with upstreams packaging.
Fedora? SuSE? Kubuntu? Are you fucking serious? Who uses that, apart from completely newbies?
ReplyDeleteThese distros may be a good start for newbies (and not even for them), but they are very complicated for people who know what they do.
You're a developer so you're supposed to know how to make things work. I suggest you to use Arch or Gentoo (if you don't care about long times compiling).
Ah, and Mageia is vaporware. Mandriva sucked for several years due to its lack of software and support, and so will Mageia.
@ adolfh: you probably missed the original post where he said he didn't want to have to compile stuff from source.
ReplyDeleteThe mouse button thing with openSUSE is really weird. I have never experienced that myself, nor have I heard of anything like it happening to anyone else.
@adolfh: you also probably missed the fact that not all developers (or even solid computer users) want to waste their time compiling. I got better things to do like write code... I find it amazing that people can have so much venom and be so utterly wrong.
ReplyDeletelol "adolfh" your name gives me the feeling your are joking. But a lot of truth is said in jest. And it's true that a lot of people think like that. "I'm going to use this apparently more advanced distro/operating system and it's going to make me a better developer than people who use easy stuff". It's not true. A good developer is one who is productive, who develops things they are passionate about, has attention to detail, has a clear vision, understands his/her target audience etc. No one cares what distro you are using. So that argument is really quite shortsighted.
ReplyDeleteBesides if "developers" aren't supposed to use distros like Fedora, OpenSuse, Kubuntu etc. Then who do you think develops those distros? :P
Honestly I could settle into just about any distro and be perfectly happy with it in time (MAYBE even gentoo :P). My point here is to also conduct a survey of existing kde distros and try to understand the current "state of things". As well as to confirm or refute a hypothesis I've had but have not shared on here, yet.
The mouse issue is strange, but I have experienced it my self. My take is it's a flash issue. It somehove takes control and dont release the mouse for clicks. Use keyboard to kill, you get your mouse back.
ReplyDeleteHello
ReplyDeleteJust install Chakra. I've fallen in love with it! It's in alpha stage, but it's already rock solid and very polished. It's, so much better than Kubuntu. It's based on Arch, but it cuts off entire gtk dependencies. However, there are so called bundles for gtk apps lovers and those bundles run as normal applications, but they keep gtk and other dependencies away from your instalation. Chakra follows excellent philosophy - core is upgraded half a year, but KDE and other applications are upgraded as soon as they are released (after a bit of testing of course). Chakra has the spirit of good old KDE3 distributions. It's simply perfect. I wish it become default distribution for KDE developers.
Maybe you should also give a try to Pardus
ReplyDeleteChakra is the best choice for you, especially if you have good memories with Arch. I used Opensuse, Fedora, Kubuntu, Sabayon, PCLinuxOS, Debian, Pardus and some distros that I don't remember and these distributions with KDE looks like a joke. For me these distros aren't for human beings, it's only toys for those who create it. I'm not a developer, I'm just a user who knows what he needs.
ReplyDeleteFirst Chakra is incredibly fast, it's simply based on Arch, there is no bloatware.
You don't need to bother with configuration. Installation is simply like in Ubuntu. After install, just enjoy it. :)
KDE here is pure KDE, without unstable, unnecessary hacks.
It's half-rolling release. You have always fresh software. It's best thing for me. :) Previously i used experimental releases of distributions, cause i really hate freezing packages, it's really stupid. I want a new version of game? Noooo, compile it by yourself!
I don't want to write more... JUST CHECK IT!
chakra has the disadvantage of being too hard about that no-gtk thing, you can't for example, download an app which is gtk and run it, you have to create a bundle out of it and a lot of strange things, That is a bit discriminating, removing gtk dependances is good, but not being able to install a gtk app which is not bundled is not, maybe There should be a new arch spin without this
ReplyDelete